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09 July 2013 @ 10:00 am
and cummings said: pity this busy monster, manunkind, not.  
OH LOOK, A MEME. (Do people still do these things? Will I totally date myself and my old fandom age if I do this?)

If I made Cinderella, the audience would immediately be looking for a body in the coach.
—Alfred Hitchcock

When I write a story, what do readers immediately look for?


It could be structurally, narrativistically (whaddya mean that's not a word?) or thematically or pretty much anything. Enable me, someone? Anyone? Bueller?

32 33


Also, also xx_pinkstar is watching Veronica Mars and my excitement cannot be contained. That also reminded me that I so badly want to write Duncan/Veronica/Logan early S2/post S1 fic, because I've always wanted to explore those three just sitting around and being snarky and dysfunctional and brOT3 and madly in love with Lilly. AND I've always wanted to explore a pre-series fab four dynamic, but man, that is dictionary definition terrifying.

Also omg@LJ being so dead. I feel like this entire post should be in caps like a flare light on an island, HELLO, ANYBODY HERE. But what if it just echoes back. I think too much about things.

Also, another meme, because I'm bored.

+ So, my fic titles usually have nothing to do with the fic itself. I choose them because I think they're pretty. But then I meta out a connection in my head. No, but, seriously. I did it with the last fic I wrote: your life will not flash before your eyes, where I wrote the entire thing, and later was all OH HEY, THE ENDING TIES IN WITH THE TITLE, THIS COULD ACTUALLY MAKE SENSE.

+ I also sometimes write just because I have a summary in my head. Like I'd write an entire fic, just because there are three lines that I've thought of that I really want to put out there, and the rest of the fic is basically just secondary and a necessary evil to accomplish that.

so, meme:

Do you have any fic/fandom habits that could be classified as just plain weird?


34



Also, because (the theme of this post is clearly because):

Do you feel that fic writing has made you a better writer, or instead, limited you in original writing, or both? (if you are writingly so inclined i.e.).


Because I have no doubt that I'm a far better writer than I would have been had I never written any fic, but yet, because my main aim in all fic is characterization rather than plot, I fall short in any and all original work because there is nothing pre-existing that I have to characterize, and then I have no idea how to words.
 
 
( 77 comments — Leave a comment )
upupa_epops: [vm] misery loves comedyupupa_epops on July 9th, 2013 06:23 pm (UTC)
Am I supposed to tell you what I look for in your stories, or what do I think my readers look for in my stories? XD
youcallitwinter: our winding roadsyoucallitwinter on July 9th, 2013 06:25 pm (UTC)
LOL, IT NEVER EVEN STRUCK ME THAT IT COULD BE THE LATTER. It totally could be. You can tell me either, neither or both, depending on your mood :P
upupa_epops: [vm] Logan/Veronicaupupa_epops on July 9th, 2013 06:34 pm (UTC)
I MUST STEAL THIS MEME.

I mostly look for your formal experiments and for characterization. Because your character work is stunning, and you always have them nailed, warts and all. And you can do with narratives whatever you damn please.

(I hate you a little bit, because you're so young, and so skilled. Jealous here.)
(no subject) - youcallitwinter on July 9th, 2013 06:49 pm (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - upupa_epops on July 10th, 2013 07:43 pm (UTC) (Expand)
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(no subject) - youcallitwinter on July 12th, 2013 04:35 pm (UTC) (Expand)
treblebethtreblebeth on July 9th, 2013 06:26 pm (UTC)
I would also very much appreciate it if you would write a pre-series V/L/D/L story. because I'm fascinated by the potentially fucked up dynamics of that group of four. there are a few great fics out there that touch on it but NOT NEARLY ENOUGH.
youcallitwinter: yesterday upon the stair.youcallitwinter on July 9th, 2013 06:53 pm (UTC)
L O L. Simpatico, bro. I just extended this post and mentioned that same thing, because I also really want to write pre-series Fab Four, but I am convinced of failure, there. (Also because I can't write a fic without Logan/Veronica and I don't know how to canonically bring them in. I COULD MAKE IT AU I SUPPOSE. But I REALLY want to write this. I mean, writing Lilly Kane omg! And basically all the incestuous fraternizing in the group.)

Fuck, now that you've mentioned it too, I REALLY want it.
treblebethtreblebeth on July 10th, 2013 12:47 am (UTC)
I don't know how much fic you've read but there are a couple really good pre-series fab 4 fics that develop Logan/Veronica's friendship. After reading those, it's my canon that they really were good friends before everything that went down, which is why Logan felt so betrayed over the Yolanda issue. A few fics touch into the idea that V and L really bounded since they were the non-Kanes of the four. There are also more than a few fics that run with the idea that while Logan always loved Lily, he also always harbored a crush on Veronica but felt he was too tainted for her.. And there are also a few intriguing V/L/L fics... I'm sure you've read a lot of these but if you haven't, let me know and I'll drop by some recs.

I CRAZY love that whole period and wish there were a billion more fics about it. so... *nudge nudge*
(no subject) - carlier36 on July 10th, 2013 03:32 am (UTC) (Expand)
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pre-series RECS - treblebeth on July 10th, 2013 07:07 pm (UTC) (Expand)
Re: pre-series RECS - youcallitwinter on July 11th, 2013 10:41 am (UTC) (Expand)
Re: pre-series RECS - treblebeth on July 11th, 2013 03:00 pm (UTC) (Expand)
Re: pre-series RECS - youcallitwinter on July 11th, 2013 07:31 pm (UTC) (Expand)
Re: pre-series RECS - (Anonymous) on July 11th, 2013 08:31 pm (UTC) (Expand)
Re: pre-series RECS - youcallitwinter on July 11th, 2013 11:15 pm (UTC) (Expand)
Re: pre-series RECS - youcallitwinter on July 12th, 2013 04:38 pm (UTC) (Expand)
12cubed: Joan Watson12_12_12 on July 9th, 2013 08:32 pm (UTC)
1) I am about to start Reply 1997 after your rec, YESSSSSSSS

2) LJ being so dead is the one thing that makes me somewhat less embarrassed about posting so often myself, heh

3) Things I look for in your fic: you being honest about people, what people are like. It sounds so simple but I come across it so rarely, and even more rarely is it done well, and you are one of the best. :D
youcallitwinter: the way we get by.youcallitwinter on July 9th, 2013 08:48 pm (UTC)
1) OMG, YESSSSSS, DO IT. I'm having such a tough time watching though because of ridic slow internet speed and general unavailability :( But I love it! And I want to check out Shut Up Flower Boy Band as well!

2) LOL, I feel like I'm fulfilling entire fandom's fic quota all on my own because I write so often these days. This is literally the most active I've been in AGES while everyone's gone!

3) Aww, that is so sweet of you to say <3 Especially considering I've barely written any fic you'd actually want to read!! (I play favorites a lot though, it limits me; like I rarely can bear making a character I like do something I hate :s)
12cubed12_12_12 on July 9th, 2013 08:56 pm (UTC)
1) SUFBB is ALL THINGS AMAZING. I think you will fall in love with it! BTW I think both it and Reply 1997 are available on YouTube? Reply 1997 is also listed under "Answer Me 1997," AFAIK.

3) You are the only person in the world who can get me to read Klaroline. The ONLY person. I think that speaks volumes. :DDD

IDK, I think you see characters clearly in a way that very few people do--there's a distortion effect that goes on where you can TELL people are seeing their faves overly positively while doing the opposite for their non-faves, but you let all your characters just BE themselves and it's great.

And on top of just being honest about the characters and seeing them clearly, I think you have a really great handle on...what's the right way to put it...the oddities of human emotion? The logic behind the non-logic, so to speak. You can express that. All my favorite fic writers (which are few and far between b/c I am very picky) have this quality, and you have it in spades.
(no subject) - youcallitwinter on July 9th, 2013 09:33 pm (UTC) (Expand)
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Florencia: DE (Road Trip)florencia7 on July 9th, 2013 08:38 pm (UTC)
That's a fun meme! :D

When I start reading any of your stories, my only actual expectation is to be swept off my feet - and it always happens. There is no way to look for anything specific, because your ideas are so fresh, your wording so original. I guess I could say I'm looking for PURE BRILLIANCE and I always find it. You honestly can do no wrong no matter what you write. It's such a rare gift. And it's totally amazing. I'm always on the verge of giggling madly while reading anything by you, because no matter what you write: fic, meta, RL thoughts, comments - it always feels right and perfect. Always. And this just doesn't happen. Everyone has better and worse stories, more or less awkward posts, etc. Well. You don't! Everything you write is ALWAYS AMAZING ♥ ♥ ♥

I don't know if it's weird (or if it's even a habit lol), but if I fall in love with a character, I'm going to defend them, all of their actions, all of their words, no matter what, forever & ever lol It doesn't mean I always approve. But I'm always able to come up with an explanation/justification.

Fan Fiction made me believe I could write in English at all, so I'll be forever grateful for that. It also taught me to proofread (again, at all). I never did that in my native language o_O *cringes* lol But thanks to FF I've developed a deep appreciation for proofreading ^^
youcallitwinter: but I keep them in a box under my bedyoucallitwinter on July 9th, 2013 08:59 pm (UTC)
Okay, have I mentioned lately, YOU ARE THE WORST FOR MY EGO? But seriously though, all that praise is definitely way more your reading than my writing. To be honest, careful readers always take so much more out of a fic in their interpretation than the writer possibly ever thought of. It's pretty much why Death of the Author is one of my pet/favorite theories, because it opens up so much work to so much more nuance, because of the reader being added into the mix. I HAVE SO MUCH AWKWARD WRITING THOUGH, I CAN BARELY READ MOST OF THE STUFF THAT I WRITE WITHOUT CRINGING.

I don't know if it's weird (or if it's even a habit lol), but if I fall in love with a character, I'm going to defend them, all of their actions, all of their words, no matter what, forever & ever lol It doesn't mean I always approve. But I'm always able to come up with an explanation/justification.

Haha, I don't think that's weird at all! Because I totally do that all the time. Unless it is weird and I just don't know it. But then, we can both totally be weird together \o/ I think it's natural instinct though, I always make special efforts for my favorites, and I would never do that for characters I dislike or simply don't care about, even if they did the exact same thing.

Fan Fiction made me believe I could write in English at all, so I'll be forever grateful for that.

I DIDN'T KNOW ENGLISH WASN'T YOUR NATIVE LANGUAGE!! But also, that is amazing. I mean, the fact that something like fanfiction is completely capable of making people proficient in a language they may not completely be familiar with the nuances of, because of sheer practice, that is truly awesome. I'm pretty sure it's true in my case as well! (Also, lol, totally agreed on proofreading, I am OBSESSIVE about it now!)
sassy, classy, and a bit smart-assy: VM: Sadiesbadboy_fangirl on July 9th, 2013 11:42 pm (UTC)
I look for dialogue that is perfect. Because you always have it. I noticed in your long gone TVD fic, but it's really a strong point to your VM fic. Just, augh. I always wish I'd thought of it.

You have a really strong sense of voice, so when it clicks for you, the reader is so lucky, because it feels so very like canon, you might as well be reading an episode recap.

In short: ♥

ETA: also, prior to VM, no one ever had sex. So, thank God for VM!


Edited at 2013-07-09 11:43 pm (UTC)
youcallitwinter: repeated image of the lovers destroyedyoucallitwinter on July 10th, 2013 09:02 am (UTC)
LMAO, I WROTE TVD FIC JUST A WEEK OR SO AGO. But yeah, it was Klaus/Caroline, and not one of my usual ship-writings. :P Also, thank you, because I'm always so afraid of being OOC- which would be disastrous since I only write for character- and especially in VM-verse where I feel everyone is so flawlessly characterized in canon, so I'm just really glad it doesn't seem off to you. Voices are always what I'm really insecure about.

ETA: also, prior to VM, no one ever had sex. So, thank God for VM!

THIS MADE ME LOL SO HARD. I think I've written lots of TVD smut-type fics?? But you're right, there's a hell lot more damaged sexing (would you believe it with the sexual history of these characters) in my vmars fic than I've ever written before, clearly because canon frustrates me on that count (THE HOTTEST ~SEX SCENE IN CANON WAS LITERALLY LOGAN/HANNAH.)
(no subject) - badboy_fangirl on July 11th, 2013 10:22 pm (UTC) (Expand)
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Tenae: Veronica Mars: Veronicacarlier36 on July 10th, 2013 12:20 am (UTC)
So, I'm new to the fandom and have basically devoured all of your Veronica Mars fic in the last week or two as evidenced by multiple comments on AO3 (different username, same me!)

With fresh eyes, I'd have to say I'm expecting great characterization when I open one of your fics - your aim has certainly been true because every one of them is just spot on, no matter the circumstances. I can totally relate to why you love writing fic and struggle more with original work - the fact that you don't have to worry about explaining anything to your reader, that you can just jump in anywhere and get inside a character's head is such exhilarating freedom and it DOES make original writing all the harder.
youcallitwinter: here to get it back from youyoucallitwinter on July 10th, 2013 10:07 am (UTC)
Hello :D Haha, always good to know I'm not just writing for myself, because I'm so late to the VM fandom that I'm surprised anyone at all is interested anymore; especially since this fandom already has all the wonderful fic anyone could want! (Oh, and if you don't mind my asking, what is your username over at ao3?)

Also, wow, that, that is lovely of you! I'm always terrified that I'm making Logan and Veronica very ~fanon; exaggerating their traits or being selective in portraying them. And I would hate to do that, because I love them so much as they canonically are, damage and all.

I can totally relate to why you love writing fic and struggle more with original work.

Everything you say there! There are people who write great, epic length, involved, sometimes AU, fics with actual plots and completely OOC characterization- and while that may not be what I look for in fic, but I don't think it's such a bad thing per se? Because that means the characters are pretty much original (coughfiftyshadesofgreycough). It may not be good ~fic in terms of being in-character, but it may be a perfectly good original story all on its own, which is also commendable. I can't do that at all :s
Tenae: Veronica Mars: Logan Echolls & Veronica carlier36 on July 10th, 2013 02:30 pm (UTC)
It's great to have such an old fandom still be relatively active. I admit, I'm torn about whether the movie is going to bring a wonderful influx of fresh blood or just a whole lot of new bad fic haha! Oh, it's lovesrogue36 at AO3 (I hate that you can't change your username over there, not really. Almost all of my accounts match now except that one!)

I think sometimes I tend to play up characters' negative, damaged traits, not necessarily fanon but not necessarily entirely canon either, so I love how you've been able to show a little bit of the sweet, funny side to them. Because they really can be adorable, it just usually doesn't last very long!

Epic fics are like an entirely different branch of fandom to me - I don't have that much of an attention span! They're really great and all but it's true that they tend to be less in character and then what's the point, really? I've been working on an actually original work that I started for Nanowrimo a couple years ago (which is almost finished! But sucks.... so there's that) and the hardest thing about it is getting inside the characters' heads. I haven't already spent 50 hours or more of television with them so I feel like I don't really KNOW them haha.
(no subject) - youcallitwinter on July 10th, 2013 03:30 pm (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - carlier36 on July 10th, 2013 04:44 pm (UTC) (Expand)
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Kelsey: vm.shipkwritten on July 10th, 2013 04:37 am (UTC)
/sobs
Yes Veronica/Logan/Duncan is pretty but honestly I crave V/L/Weevil-loving-Lilly so much more!!!! #selfish priorities are angsty

What I look for? Well... I *expect* writing that will challenge how I think about prose and form, mostly. You are brilliant with your lyricism and form.

How do you exist?

youcallitwinter: to better counter-act his charm attackyoucallitwinter on July 10th, 2013 10:32 am (UTC)
LOL, I've been trying to figure this out; what is your definitive vmars/Veronica ship? Do you have one? Is it Weevil/Veronica? :D

ALSO, I HAVEN'T FORGOTTEN ABOUT YOUR GORGEOUS PROMPT. I just wrote more fic for that fic war thing just a day or so ago, so it's definitely a thing that is still happening, and I really want to write for yours. I've begun it too, but I'm still figuring out the POV and tone!

guh, thank you so much, that is ever so nice of you!
Kelsey: vm.shipkwritten on July 10th, 2013 03:12 pm (UTC)
what is your definitive vmars/Veronica ship?
*scratches chin*
It'd probably come down to Weevil/Logan/Veronica at the end of the day. I can't see any of them functioning well without the other two (*ahem* and by "function" I DO OF COURSE MEAN "ripped apart and bleeding but still walking") ((even though the series seriously underrepresented the Weevil/Logan connection)) (((forever bitter, okay?))) and the dynamic of any pair on their own is perfect. They completely define an ot3 for me - because I can see them working out in any way, but I am happiest thinking of the three of them together. ((In terms of pairings I ship Logan/Veronica and Logan/Weevil a bit more than Weevil/Veronica... but no that's not true at all ignore me.))

I have a LOT of feelings about the three of them being knights and not understanding that they are the most fragile people of them all. HOW ARE THEY ALL SO PERF IS WHAT I WANT TO KNOW?!

I HAVEN'T FORGOTTEN ABOUT YOUR GORGEOUS PROMPT.
*flails madly*

I will wait and wait, bb!

(no subject) - youcallitwinter on July 10th, 2013 03:44 pm (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - kwritten on July 10th, 2013 04:37 pm (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - youcallitwinter on July 11th, 2013 10:09 am (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - kwritten on July 11th, 2013 01:03 pm (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - youcallitwinter on July 11th, 2013 11:23 pm (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - kwritten on July 12th, 2013 11:43 am (UTC) (Expand)
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(no subject) - kwritten on July 14th, 2013 11:04 am (UTC) (Expand)
ever_neutral: [vm] logan + veronica = teenage dreamever_neutral on July 10th, 2013 08:02 am (UTC)
When you post a story I look for pain tbh.

U know I endorse your VMars ways.

+ I also sometimes write just because I have a summary in my head. Like I'd write an entire fic, just because there are three lines that I've thought of that I really want to put out there, and the rest of the fic is basically just secondary and a necessary evil to accomplish that.
YOU TOO? Knew it.

re: last question -- honestly, I basically just use fic as practice for original writing, SO BOTH? Also, it's been 87 years and still no one will explain to me what plot is.
youcallitwinter: till the end of the worldyoucallitwinter on July 10th, 2013 10:54 am (UTC)
u r familiar with my intentions, I see.

I AM GLAD YOU DO. I LIKE HAVING YOU ON MY SIDE ON VMARS THINGS TBQH.

YOU TOO? Knew it.

omg, you do it too?? *bro five*

: last question -- honestly, I basically just use fic as practice for original writing, SO BOTH?

THAT IS INTERESTING TO ME. I didn't know you did original writing? But that is honestly the best way to look at fic imo, as practice. Of course, I do no original writing apart from the odd ~competition, so all the practice if for naught.

HOW DOES PLOT. :x
most adorable zombie everscorpiod1 on July 10th, 2013 08:31 am (UTC)
What I look for in your fic is gorgeous prose, imagery and turns-of-phrases, poeticness, non-linear story-telling, a good strong character voice, metaness about stories, and emotional honesty :)

I support Veronica/Logan/Duncan! Especially since the only time I like Veronica/Duncan is when it's a trainwreck mess. AND I LOVE THE FAB FOUR THOUGH.

Lmao omg writing just for the summary THAT'S KINDA OF AWESOME THOUGH to come up with a story just for an interesting summary. YOU ALREADY HAVE A SUMMARY that's like the hardest part for me. I've done the thing where I've had an ending in mind for a fic, but just an ending, and trying to write it out would mean I have to figure out what happens in the rest of the fic. And in fandom, idk, I sometimes get into fandoms without actually watching or reading the source material. Like I have favorite characters and saved icons for stuff I haven't watched yet, it's ridiculous.

I wish I could figure out if fic writing has made me better or worse with original fic, but I haven't actually tried to write anything original since I started writing fic. So I guess you can say fic writing made me worse about original fic because all I wanna do is writing fanfic now????
youcallitwinter: you who never arrived.youcallitwinter on July 10th, 2013 11:52 am (UTC)
YOU ARE MAKING ME BLUSH WITH BEING SO NICE TO ME. Also lol@non-linear story-telling, it really amused me that you said that, because I was going to add in another meme, something like "what is the one thing you've always wanted to do, but have never been able to achieve in fic writing", and non-linear story-telling was at the top of my list, except I decided to save that meme for another day xD

metaness about stories

HAHA, I genuinely thought this would be the first thing to be mentioned, because, for some strange reason, it's like a running theme in pretty much everything I've written in the TVD fandom!

I LIKE LOGAN/VERONICA/DUNCAN a lot; I feel like they're so involved with each other and Logan and Duncan playing video games and then pausing to watch some psychic bring a message for V on TV from her dead-best friend telling her that she shouldn't have dated her ex, just speaks to my soul. I think their dynamic is so fantastically untriangle-like, because it's not about getting ~the girl at all, they're all equally invested in each other.

BUT FAB FOUR >>> ANYTHING NOT FAB FOUR.

Lmao omg writing just for the summary THAT'S KINDA OF AWESOME THOUGH to come up with a story just for an interesting summary. YOU ALREADY HAVE A SUMMARY that's like the hardest part for me.

I literally wrote a 17,000 word fic for this:

She first hears about it from the new waitress at the Java, oddly enough.

"Aaron Echolls's son, you know." the girl informs her gleefully, "I gave him head once."

Her stomach churns, but she has no right. Not anymore. So she smiles, hard, brittle, and says, "so did I."


THAT IS ALL I WANTED TO WRITE SO I WROTE 16,900 MORE WORDS ALONGSIDE. Those lines literally determined my POV, it was supposed to be Logan initially for my post S3 fic, but just because of this, it had to be Veronica and I had to rework the entire thing in my head.

Basically, I am hopeless. (And I cannot do endings at all, AT ALL, so all the props to you tbqh.)

Like I have favorite characters and saved icons for stuff I haven't watched yet, it's ridiculous.

GUH, I LOVE YOU?? Because I SO do this too, I totally save icons from things I've never seen, and I have favorite characters that I'm determined to like if I ever get into canon, without knowing ANYTHING about them. I DIDN'T KNOW OTHER PEOPLE DID THAT.

I never write anything original ever, so I feel you, bro /o\
Cbellonablack on July 11th, 2013 03:52 pm (UTC)
when I read a fic of yours, I look for heartbreaking moments. IN A GOOD WAY THOUGH. Yes I am going to post this comment, but I mean. You have good emotional range and you can make certain emotions resound? if that makes sense. And I hope it does. :)
youcallitwinter: all you want is everythingyoucallitwinter on July 11th, 2013 11:25 pm (UTC)
Hahaha, omg, you are so sweet, I love how you totally qualified that remark :P I never think of heartbreaking as a bad thing! Except I ALWAYS try to write detached gen-fic with underlying snark/angst and end up in full-angst territory somehow, ugh, WHY DD: Thank you so much for the kind words srsly!
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